More than 20 years after winning a Tony Award as Tracy Turnblad in Broadway's Hairspray, Marissa Jaret Winokur can still hear the bells. She calls the Marc Shaiman-Scott Wittman-Marc O'Donnell-Thomas Meehan musical "the gift that keeps on giving," because, well, it is! After creating the role, she returned alongside fellow Tony-winning original cast member Harvey Fierstein to close the show on Broadway in 2009, and has since returned to it at the Hollywood Bowl, Carnegie Hall, and even a cameo appearance in NBC's Hairspray Live! in 2016.
And now, she's readying to return to the musical yet again, but from a distinctly different position: director. She'll helm a new California revival of the Tony-winning musical at 5-Star Theatricals in Los Angeles, running October 10-26. And to make it even more full-circle, she's found the perfect Edna Turnblad in her longtime best friend, Ryan O'Connor. Oh and by the way, the duo's close friendship began backstage at Hairspray—kismet!
We caught up with Winokur and O'Connor recently to find out how they decided this was the moment for them to do Hairspray together, and what Winokur plans to bring to her take on the Broadway favorite that made her a star. The conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Let’s start with how you two know eachother!
Ryan O’Connor: So, Hairspray is the backdrop of our entire friendship. I saw the show with my mom during previews, right before it opened.
Marissa Jaret Winokur: Was your mom younger then than I am now?
O’Connor: She was.
Winokur: Hate that.
O’Connor: And I was younger than you are now, because I always have been.
Winokur: Hate that.
O’Connor: So anyways, we had a mutual friend. And when Marissa was in Hairspray, she was sort of sequestered, basically. She would go from the theatre to her apartment, and then she needed friends.
Winokur: I needed friends who would eat turkey burgers and French fries with me at 2 AM. Because I had to keep the Tracy weight on, and I was working my ass off!
O’Connor: We instantly hit it off, and we’ve been best friends ever since. And ever since she moved to LA, I’ve been there for all the major Hairspray milestones. I was Eve Harrington in the corner.
Winokur: Literally! When Harvey [Fierstein] and I went back to close Hairspray in 2009, he would hold my son in the back and watch it every night. And that child is now 17. Which is crazy, but it’s also why I’m able to be back doing theatre again, because my child is old enough that he doesn’t give a shit what I do. And now I have five stage shows in the works!
O’Connor: Well, and my big victory here is 17 years later, Marissa’s son, Zev, has still never seen Hairspray. And when he finally does see Hairspray for the first time, he’s not seeing Marissa. He’s seeing me. Huge win.
Well other than those turkey burgers, what did you two connect on?
Winokur: Honestly, it was just the perfect timing in my life. I met him at such a specific time in my life.
O’Connor: Mine too. That show happened at a time when I was a very heavy character actor in my early 20s, so I wasn’t working. And she was such an inspiration to me. I saw this unique and out-of-the-ordinary explosion happen for her, and it gave me so much hope. It was very special. And even though Marissa was my entry point, being able to sit in the wings and watch Harvey have this moment, too. And since then, I’ve learned so much more about Harvey’s story and where he was in his life, which is such an inspiration for me too.
Winokur: I always say Hairspray is the gift that keeps on giving. We did it at the Hollywood Bowl—Ryan was there. We did it at Carnegie Hall—Ryan was there. You really are the wind beneath my wings. It must have been cold there in my shadow.
O’Connor: Honestly, sometimes? Frigid.
Winokur: The good news is he’s always been supportive. And I’ve always been supportive of you!
O’Connor: The most. And in a way that is so rare in this business. What’s happened for Marissa is all because of her unique talent and ability, but also just the magic of meeting the right time and right place and everything. She knows that this business is not fair—and is always the first to help and be supportive, to take me wherever she can.
It’s an interesting time for this particular thing to come up, because after years of being plenty fat but too young to play Edna, this Edna comes around at a time when I happen to be the thinnest I’ve ever been. It was a complicated conversation, because I wondered if I could still do it. But I’ve realized that Edna has always been in me. I know this woman, and drag is drag. We did a promo shoot recently and I put on some Edna curves and an Edna wig, and I got really emotional because… yes, I do love that I’ve found a healthier lifestyle and that my life has changed in that way. But I miss the sparkle of being that person, that feeling you get when you walk into a room knowing that fluffy is joyful. There’s a security, and it’s been very emotional stepping back into that body. And Marissa knows that journey. We’ve been on it together.
Who better than someone who has been in all sorts of body shapes to know deeply that happiness and joy has absolutely nothing to do with body shape? Something I think is a concept that Hairspray really is a great beacon for.
Winokur: Totally. And that goes both ways. That’s why Ryan’s Edna doesn’t need to be a certain size. Every mother has those insecurities, especially for their kids—and Ryan knows all those insecurities inherently. Edna is a mom who is concerned about her daughter—and to be clear, I see Edna as a woman. I don’t look at it as a drag character. When I think about Harvey, I don’t think about what the body was like. I see his face being worried for Tracy. There just was never any question to me that Ryan was going to play Edna. This is the time for us to do the show together. It’s a journey we’ve been on, and he’s finally the right age.
Loving this heartwarming exchange of Marissa telling you you’re not fat, but you are old.
O’Connor: That is friendship.
Winokur: It’s that song we always wanted to sing together, “Bosom Buddies.”
O’Connor: Mame and Vera is absolutely what we should be doing.
Marissa, tell me what you’re bringing to your Hairspray.
Winokur: I can definitely say the one way I can direct Tracy that no one else can direct Tracy is that I know all the tricks. I know all the times you don’t have to sing because no one is looking at you. But mostly, I love the theatre we’re doing it in. It’s not a small theatre, but it’s more intimate than the Neil Simon. It’s the perfect size, because we can really tell the story. I’ve seen a lot of Hairspray out in the world, and everyone does a great job. It’s a great show.
But a lot of productions miss the actual story of Hairspray. The story is not about a fat girl getting to dance and kiss the boy. That’s the Trojan horse. It’s about this girl who’s 16 and learns for the first time that Black and white people can’t dance together, and she’s going to change what’s happening in the world of the ‘60s. Not because she’s an activist, but just because it’s right. She realizes it’s not fair. I think a lot of productions skate past that part. I want people to leave remembering that’s what Hairspray was and is about. We are at a time now where we need Hairspray again. I’m excited to do the show and teach 20-year-old kids that this isn’t just some time from long-ago history. To quote Marc and Scott’s movie song, we’ve come so far, but we’ve got so far to go.
O’Connor: One time years ago, when I was in the shadows of Hairspray, when Melissa and Harvey went back to close the show, they were performing at an event. And they were going to go out and do “I Know Where I’ve Been.” All the entire extended Hairspray family was there, and even though I hadn’t been in it, that was definitely my community at that time. We were hanging out backstage and someone just said, “Why don’t you come out with us and do the number.” And I was like, "of course, why not?"
I went out, and I filmed it for my YouTube channel at the time. And Marc [Shaiman] was there and played the piano. You can actually see in the video when he sees me filming it. And Marc was furious. At the time, I was pretty indignant about it. And now it’s a huge regret of mine, because I understand why Marc was so angry. He said afterwards, he said, “’I Know Where I’ve Been’ is not a joke. It is not a participation number for the white cast members. He was very upset with me, and I don’t know that he’s ever actually bounced back completely, and I don’t blame him. I was making a bit out of something that is really the heart and the most important part of the story. And he knew then that that wasn’t going to be something that ever expired. He knew that it was not to be joked about. And I got it later and why I have so much shame about it. Because just like Marissa says, Tracy is the trojan horse… The message is that we all have struggles, and most people have a struggle bigger than yours if you just look to your left and look to your right. I think that’s what the perspective of time and age gives you.
Marissa, what has surprised you the most in the years since Hairspray premiered, as you’ve watched it flourish and become so many other things.
Winokur: I was always excited that people would do this show in high schools, and that little chubby girl is going to get to be the star of the show. She doesn’t just have to be Jan in Grease. That’s always been exciting. I never thought it would be as iconic as it is. What really showed that to me is how me and Kerry [Butler] and Laura [Bell Bundy] put [Mama, I’m a Big Girl Now] together and toured it around. Wherever we performed it, we were welcomed with such open arms. And when you leave, everyone has a story about when they saw Hairspray. How many shows are like that?
I can remember seeing Patti LuPone in Evita, and how that changed my perception of wanting to do theatre. Faith Prince in Guys and Dolls. But I’m telling you, if there are 1,000 people in the audience, 1,000 people have a story to tell me from when they saw Hairspray and what it means to them, no matter where I am. It’s really overwhelming. We opened right after 9/11, and we really just wanted people to have a good time. But it was such an all-inclusive show that made everybody feel welcome, made everybody feel good. I think what surprises me the most is just how much of a mark it made on so many people.
Do you have any concerns about working together as friends? Are you going to be able to give each other notes?
O’Connor: What I can tell you, that she won’t say, is I know that she’s terrified that I’m not going to take the notes. I guarantee you.
Winokur: I’m actually not terrified even a little. I love you for that, that you think I am. I know how to give him a note and make him think that it was his idea.
O’Connor: That’s true. She is good at that. We joke a lot that I’m the Mickey to her Valerie Cherish, and that is true. If you watch Valerie and Mickey together, you realize Mickey is actually the bigger drama queen of the two of them. He just encourages it. And that’s always been our dynamic. If there’s ever a fit to be thrown in a Marissa Jaret Winokur dressing room, it’s me throwing it on her behalf.
Winokur: I’m excited about it. We’ve worked together before. And honestly I know how to get what I want out of people. I won Big Brother for a reason. That’s just being a good director. There’s different ways of giving notes to different people. And at the end of the day, I know what’s right for this show. And Ryan knows that.
O’Connor: Marissa is such a talented director, and such an actor’s director, because she knows. Like yes, she knows where Tracy can breathe. But she knows how the heart has to pump through all of it. That’s why she was so great in the role in the first place, because she’s good at that in every role she does, identifying the humanity of any part. It’s why she pops in everything she does. I always say the key to Marissa’s Tracy, and why it beats everyone else, is the “Good Morning Baltimore (Reprise)” in jail. That’s where she won her Tony.
Winokur: I’m really excited. And after we get this one under our belt, I’ll go do Hairspray in every theatre there is. It’s interesting—if you look up who’s doing Hairspray right now, it’s a lot of the blue states. I want to get Hairspray in more of the red states. They deserve some good theatre.
Tickets for 5-Star Theatricals' Hairspray are at 5StarTheatricals.com.
The Broadway cast of Hairspray
